What intrinsic logic has prompted this 40-year-old man, who is "both praised and criticized", to repeatedly "stir" the Chinese Internet industry into "restlessness", and even make Pony Ma, the founder of China's largest Internet company, feel uneasy? This is no longer a secret: in the Chinese Internet industry, Hongyi Zhou, the founder of 360, always triggers waves of disturbances with his unexpected actions, thus becoming a highly controversial "disruptor". Last week, I conducted an exclusive one-and-a-half-hour interview with Zhou, who had just returned to Beijing from Hong Kong, trying to restore the logic and behavior pattern that this "highly controversial" figure always follows. In this interview, Zhou defined himself as a thorough disruptor and gave a detailed interpretation of this role. Below are some of his remarks:
- What I do is disruption, I disrupt business models, existing business models.
- In China, talking about disruption or destruction are all negative terms. Eastern ethics consider harmony as the first priority, thinking why you always argue with others, why you always prevent others from making money, why you always make the market disharmonious, which makes me seem highly controversial. In the U.S., I might be considered a hero, believing that I am doing disruptive things, but in China, I have become someone with mixed reviews.
- His (Pony Ma's) character is to seek stability, he will not easily enter without full confidence. I feel he always has a sense of insecurity, always worrying that one day a client will grow big enough to overturn QQ.
- The Chinese Internet has aged too early, eventually turning into everyone copying each other, big companies copy, small companies also copy.
- Many entrepreneurs advocate morality, enterprises compete in a survival-of-the-fittest manner, but when doing so, please don't harm users.
- Through this event, we may not be able to remain completely idealistic in the future, we need to become more flexible. For example, if it happens again, we might not release the function of filtering customer ads.
Forbes Chinese website: These years, it seems like you're always "stirring up trouble" in the industry. Can you talk about the logic behind your actions?
Zhou Hongyi: What I do is disruption, I disrupt business models, existing business models. When we were creating anti-malware software, free antivirus software, including this time's QQ Protector, we were all playing the role of disruptors. For example, when I was doing antivirus software, why did the existing manufacturers always sell a set of antivirus software for more than 300 yuan? It's not worth that much, it's excessive profit. I completely disrupted them through free services, I want people to know that free antivirus software can also make money.
Forbes Chinese website: How much did the free service cost 360? Then how do you make money through free services?
Zhou Hongyi: At that time, our annual income was already over 100 million yuan. After going free, I could earn income by providing some value-added services, now our income has returned to the scale before going free.
Forbes Chinese website: But there are many criticisms of your approach outside.
Zhou Hongyi: In China, this kind of practice is hard to understand and recognize. People always think you're overdoing it, but the current situation is that there are existing patterns. Small companies rise to destroy innovation, to destroy the business model of giant companies. Initially, IBM controlled all the software and hardware, everything had to be done within IBM's system, but personal computers changed the mode and succeeded. However, in China, mentioning disruption or destruction are all negative words. Eastern ethics consider harmony as the first priority, thinking why you always argue with others, why you always prevent others from making money, why you always make the market disharmonious, which makes me seem highly controversial.
Forbes Chinese website: As a disruptor, what is your biggest concern?
Zhou Hongyi: In these few years, the most people cursing me online, at first I was very angry, everywhere were true and false rumors, later I realized as long as your product is good, ordinary people still recognize it. If cursing others could curse them to death, we wouldn't have to do anything else, just curse. This time, three people spreading rumors, several companies opposing me, people would think if you didn't do anything wrong, how could so many companies oppose you. In the U.S., I might be considered a hero, believing that I'm doing disruptive things, but in China, I've become someone with mixed reviews, some people understand me, some people don't understand me, I feel very aggrieved, I feel innovation is difficult.
Forbes Chinese website: Some people think the general situation of the Chinese Internet industry has been determined, what do you think?
Zhou Hongyi: If an industry is always determined, always only giants, it definitely is not conducive to the growth of start-up companies. Today's China does not lack companies, Chinese venture capital produces many wealth heroes, but their consciousness cannot turn around. China's Internet is still a monopolized Internet, not an innovative Internet. Our Internet field space is getting smaller and smaller, but in recent years, Facebook and Twitter have emerged in the U.S., new modes are still rising in the U.S., but in China, you cannot see the vibrant vitality like in the U.S., the Chinese Internet has aged too early, eventually turning into everyone copying each other, big companies copy, small companies also copy.
Forbes Chinese website: How do you look at moral issues? Is disrupting a company's business model somewhat immoral?
Zhou Hongyi: Many entrepreneurs claim morality, between enterprises it's survival of the fittest, cruel competition, but when doing so, please don't harm users. I think 360 hasn't done anything to harm users. What we did with QQ Protector is precisely because we saw they don't pay attention to users, user needs that should be met haven't been met. Many users don't use all the functions of QQ, QQ has more than thirty plugins, most users don't use them, there's no choice for users on what to use and what not to use, we gave users the choice, users can choose the functions they want to use, we can filter out ads users don't want to see. The reason QQ Protector is popular is because they don't pay attention to user feelings, giving us the opportunity, making QQ users like 360, it's a typical product innovation, seeking user experience, seeking large unmet user needs, it's a typical product competition.
Let's take an analogy, TV stations broadcast ads, if you go to the TV station and destroy the building, preventing the TV station from broadcasting ads, that's definitely unacceptable. But I just provide a remote control for people watching TV, and it's actively used by users. When the TV station broadcasts ads, users automatically change channels, skipping the ads. It only affects the user themselves, still in private space at home, we haven't violated Tencent's rights.
Forbes Chinese website: Why did you think of making QQ Protector? Didn't you know it would directly impact Tencent's business model?
Zhou Hongyi: I just wanted to find out what weaknesses its products have, what needs are not met, what you do that he finds hard to follow. Later, I thought he has an existing business model, he doesn't want users to turn off services in QQ on their computers that they don't use, nor does he want users to turn off ads they don't watch, so I made these two functions, making it hard for him to imitate. In fact, his best strategy is not forcing users to choose one of two options, but removing these two functions, once his user needs are met, my product becomes meaningless.
Forbes Chinese website: Have you had any direct exchanges with Pony Ma personally?
Zhou Hongyi: Yes, before I started free antivirus software, I even suggested Tencent to do security, but he was very hesitant, very conflicted. His character is to seek stability, he won't easily enter without full confidence. I feel he always has a sense of insecurity, always worrying that one day a client will grow big enough to overturn QQ.
Forbes Chinese website: Have you considered the worst result of this conflict? What if the court rules against you?
Zhou Hongyi: I don't think the court will rule against us, although it's possible through local court relations, but we will appeal.
Forbes Chinese website: After this battle, do you have any reflections on your own business philosophy and methods?
Zhou Hongyi: Through this event, we may not be able to remain completely idealistic in the future, we need to become more flexible. Since I've suffered losses in the past, I've always paid special attention to user interests, not caring too much about other companies' business interests. I think it's normal that you can't beat me, this time it seems some things were done too extremely, other companies went crazy, which could harm users. I think I'm doing a good thing, not directly harming users, but because of us, regardless of whose responsibility, users got hurt, we will pay attention to this in the future, while creating value for users, we will try to balance other companies' interests.
Forbes Chinese website: For example, if it happens again, how would you balance?
Zhou Hongyi: If we consider this situation, we might not release the function of filtering customer ads.
Forbes Chinese website: What is the lesson you mentioned - referring to making you value users?
Zhou Hongyi: In 3721, for competition, we made the product very hard to uninstall, harming users, which ultimately led to the failure of a good idea. Since then, after careful reflection, I knew I must never do anything to harm users again.
Forbes Chinese website: Some people suggest Tencent should split QQ and other platforms, do you think it's possible?
Zhou Hongyi: Personally, I think China's anti-monopoly law is just out, it will definitely be difficult in this area, it's just everyone's imagination, I think instant messaging has become a communication tool on the Internet, interconnection is absolutely necessary, the future trend [...]